I am brand new to the world of sugar and thankfully every second of it has been so so sweet.
I am writing this to the SB’s here posting in the forum that are frustrated with SD’s about sex or lack of SD’s in general.
Though I am so new to this dating game, I am seasoned in the “vanilla” dating world and would like to offer these words of advice and share my magical SD date story:
If you are only interested in having sex with an SD for money or believe that by having sex with an SD will earn you an allowance, you are NOT seeking an SD, you are seeking a client as a sex worker and will be treated as such. Just as in the “vanilla” world, if you like a boy and want things to last, you save the goods for the right time. Girls who put out on the first date are generally thought of us easy and toss away (not always of course and I am NOT “slut shaming” I love sex, and think as long as two consenting adults are involved, no judgement passed) but I am starting to see a similar (not as strictly enforced) cycle with SB & SD relationships.
So why did I decide to start my sugar life sexless? Because cutting sex from the conversation from the get go with a POT allows their full intentions to shine though. If they turn their nose up at you stating clearly that you do not play for pay, and expect to be courted by an SD just like any other relationship before deciding on sleeping with them, they weren’t interested in anything but paying for sex from a pretty girl.
Making it clear right away that you are NOT an escort and will not sell your body will HELP you find a great SD, not hurt your chances. The genuine ones that want to spoil a woman and take care of them see sex as a perk, will work for it and find the game of chase fun and exciting. Making any work for sex a bit will almost always make the first time in bed a huge treat and one he will likely cherish.
This also protects you from SALT DADDIES and FAKES. POT’s can spin wonderful fairy tales and seem very legitimate right up until you’ve finished “the act” and they never reach out to you again. Even if you don’t have a rule or want to keep sex off the table for awhile, a good rule of thumb is to refuse sex at the first date. It won’t weed out all the bad apples but it will help eradicate some of the definite scammers.
Now on to my perfect SD date and why taking sex off the table is what I believe sealed the deal:
I haven’t been on the site for more than 5 days and have sorted almost 100 messages from POT’s. After making every message clear that I was not a pay for play girl, about 10 of them held on and wanted to know more about me. Out of those 10 I chose 2 to meet in the real world. My first POT date was great and he was very funny and charming. Took me on a wonderful dinner date and drinks after. Many laughs and great conversation. The problem was though he was not expecting sex, he would want that eventually and I knew by the second course of dinner that I only had platonic feelings for him. I told him straight up. He wasn’t upset, paid for dinner and even filled my gas tank up for driving to meet him out. After parting ways he invited me to dinner again, as friends and thanked me for my honesty. He would like to see me platonically on a non SD/SB basis.
On to the dream boat: my second date was with a very serious business man who wanted to grab drinks after a meeting downtown. I went to the hotel bar where his meeting was held and waited for him.
… surprise! He was not in a meeting, he was hosting a large company party and had the bar space reserved for his office. (Now I know why I was asked to dress formally)
He introduced me to his colleagues and made the first hour a social group setting where I could watch how he interacts professionally (proving himself to be the successful business man he said he was) before taking me alone to dinner elsewhere. We had dinner, great conversation and I could genuinely see myself “dating” him. He asked me what my true thoughts of him were so far and I told him. He then went on to offer me a companion arrangement that would heavily involve being his date to social events like the one we were just at, underlining that one day he would hope to get more of me in an non-platonic way.
Spoiling was hinted and the financial aspect was laid flat on the table in black and white. The perfect arrangement for me.
The point of this post is: stay true to what kind of SD/SB relationship you really want and do not bend or break your own rules over the temptation of “promised” financing. Finances play a large part in the SB life but when you go out on the hunt with only that in mind and are willing to do things you normally wouldn’t in a “regular” dating way (like having sex for money) you setting yourself up for an unfavorable arrangement (or one night stand) that you won’t be able to take back.
I’m glad you’ve had a good experience on SA so far, but just a couple thoughts.
– It seems like your arrangement with your dream date is just beginning (or hasn’t even officially begun). Things can change very quickly in the sugar bowl, so I wouldn’t claim success right away since you’re brand new. He can take away the arrangement at any point.
– It’s not clear how taking sex off the table did or did not affect your success. It seems like you just found the right guy and the sex/no sex aspect didn’t seem to have much to do with it (at least from the story).
– I’m not sure whether your profile name is accurate, but if it is, I would certainly be more patient with a porn star than with a regular SB. Like it or not, most guys would be much more patient and much more likely to be in an arrangement with a porn star even if there’s no sex right off the bat. The potential allure of being with a porn star (and the idea of future mind-blowing sex) is often enough for SDs to be more patient. Unfortunately, most SBs are not porn stars and may not be treated the same way.
But regardless, I hope the guy does end up being your dream SD.
To answer the first posters points (which are good ones I might add for the most part):
1. You’re right, my arrangement is not final and one with any SD never is. I started this thread because some girls here are having a hard time just securing a POT date that isn’t arranged strictly by the allure of sex.
2. This POT arrangement absolutely had to do with taking sex off the table (in this particular case, sorry I forgot to include this bit) because this SD’s biggest turn off is a girl that entertains play for pay. Had I entertained the idea of that, I would have been kicked off his radar. He wants the sex to be not only consensual, but truly wanted without money playing a role in it. Companionship is arranged, my time and friendship is valued, sex (whether or not it ever happens) has no dollar amount nor will score a SB anything financially from it for this SD.
3. Yes I do adult film, and I disagree with your view on my “upper hand.” Porn is a job that can turn SD’s on AND off. The higher profile the SD, the harder it may be to ever take me out in public depending on his social status, people are judgmental and I could hurt someone’s image as much as I could help it. Part two to this: I also have a full time career outside of porn that is very professional and “vanilla.” I am not just a “porno SB” I am far more than that and make it known.
Good points. I should also point out that there is a difference between not having sex on the first date and keeping sex off the table forever/pursuing a platonic relationship. From what I glean, you took sex off the table for the first date but did not rule it out indefinitely as the relationship progresses. That is a perfectly reasonable and effective thing to do.
However, that should not be confused with a fully platonic relationship or even mentioning on your profile that you will not have sex. I can respect and even admire an SB who won’t put out on the first date. But if an SB’s profile says that they are not looking for sex ever or that they are looking for a platonic SR, I would quickly skip over them.
stsam: I almost feel like you didn’t read my entire original post clearly, I didn’t at all mean to portray sexless period, just that I am advocating other SB’s who aren’t looking for an escort minded relationship to make it clear that they do not play for pay to better their chances at a respectful SD that is interesting in investing in THEM & not their bodies. I also do not put out unless I actually feel an attraction in that way and could someday in the future (whether that is in a week or months) picture myself having sex with any proposed SD. No matter the money or status at stake, if they expect more than friendship and I know in my gut I couldn’t deliver more than friendship in a reasonable amount of time, I will cut it loose before it begins.
Having sex with the idea that it could benefit you financially (whether in spoiling or actual cash) is not only a disservice to the SD who wishes to have a truly fulfilling sex life, but to yourself as a SB because sex should ALWAYS be enjoyable. Plus eventually, (as I do have experience with this in my industry) if you’re “faking it” they will know, and it will not put anyone in a favorable position.
Every SD has different needs just as every SB does. If you require intimacy as an SD that is totally understandable. SA was conceived as a dating site. Not a friendship site or an escort site. (obviously people will use SA how they see fit and there are many people setting up happy SR’s both as a sex and/or friendship base)
People actively dating are usually having sex. But from what I have found in my day to day life with “regular” couples: those having sex right off the bat have spoiled what could be a very enjoyable sexual slow burn high. The same slow burning actions in SR’s can, and in my opinion more pleasurably so, apply.
I think what @stsam is trying to say is that refraining from sex will not and does not increase your success in a SR. SDs are not looking to just hook up with you. Those are the guys that just Pump and Dump, and pardon my french are just assholes that troll the site looking for tail. As long as you know the man you’re talking to is legit then you should be fine. The problem is in women meeting men who are not who they claim to be and that doesn’t have to do with sex.
Okay, so there is a lot to get to here so bear with me.
“if you like a boy and want things to last, you save the goods for the right time. Girls who put out on the first date are generally thought of us easy and toss away”
No, this is just not correct. The Bowl is accelerated dating. The mass majority of SDs are not going to “think less” of a SB who is willing to have sex on the first date. This is NOT vanilla dating. And guess what, in the vanilla world men don’t think less of women who sleep with them on the first date. Boys do, but not men.
“Making it clear right away that you are NOT an escort and will not sell your body will HELP you find a great SD”
Yes, SDs do not want an escort. Otherwise SDs would just get an escort. They want a Sugar Relationship. But this doesn’t mean it will help you find a great SD. This is correlation, not causation.
“good rule of thumb is to refuse sex at the first date”
A great rule of thumb is to refuse sex at the M&G. At the first date, there are a few “rules of thumb” but no sex isn’t one of them. As each SD/SB combination is different.
“The genuine ones that want to spoil a woman and take care of them see sex as a perk, will work for it and find the game of chase fun and exciting”
No, sex isn’t a “perk” in the Bowl. That shows a massive lack of understand as to the Bowl. We don’t want to “work” for it. We are extremely time poor. Hence the LACK of games in a SR. Once you start playing games you are going to get dropped by 99% of SDs. We don’t have time for that. This is a terrible bit of advice.
“I went to the hotel bar”
Again, terrible advice. The first meeting should NOT be at a hotel or his house. For all new SBs and those thinking about entering the Bowl DO NOT DO THIS!
“SD’s biggest turn off is a girl that entertains play for pay. Had I entertained the idea of that, I would have been kicked off his radar”
Again, correlation vs causation. This may have worked for THIS instance. But this is not normal. Do you know why he most likely said this? Because porn stars are notorious for being escorts on the side. That is not a knock. But a very high number do this. This is not something a SD deals with for the other 99.9% of SBs. So he is taking his time making sure you are not escorting as well. Again, this is not the normal deal in the Bowl.
I haven’t been on the site for more than 5 days
Look, I hope everything works out for you. I do. But my more than half a decade in the Bowl shows, to me even if nobody else believes it, that you are giving dangerous advice to SBs. 5 days is nothing. I know “SBs” who have spent more than a year before finding a SD. Others take months. And some have never found one. Only rarely does a SB find one within a first week.
A SB should NEVER do something she is not comfortable with. And it is okay to bow out of the Bowl if you are not happy with how things are. If anyone follows what I say on LTS you will see this is a recurring theme of my posts. But your advice is not good for new SBs. SBs need to understand that sex is involved. Trying to cover that up ends up hurting SBs more than anything. Less than .5% (less than 1 out of 200) are okay with platonic. Some SDs will go on a first date or second date with no sex. (If you are lucky you will find one that goes on three) But do not expect an allowance for those dates. And if a SB is not okay with sex with her SD by then, he is going to move on. This is NOT vanilla dating. If a SB wants to find a wealthier man to date and play vanilla games, good luck. This is not that world.
I love a good debate, seeing every side to an argument will expand your mind.
I still believe my original posting is being read inaccurately. This is obviously my fault, but I did not believe clarification was needed for this last bit, which is the entire message behind my posting:
“The point of this post is: stay true to what kind of SD/SB relationship you really want and do not bend or break your own rules over the temptation of “promised” financing. Finances play a large part in the SB life but when you go out on the hunt with only that in mind and are willing to do things you normally wouldn’t in a “regular” dating way (like having sex for money) you setting yourself up for an unfavorable arrangement (or one night stand) that you won’t be able to take back.”
This bit of advice goes for ANY part of a potential SR. If you (within reason and on a case by case basis) do anything you are not comfortable with because a wad of money is sitting on the table, you are being discourteous to yourself and any party involved. Being a “yes man” will have ups but many downs. Business world example since “vanilla dating” does not apply:
You run your own business and have 2 potential clients. The first client is not ideal but brings a large sum of money to the table. Do you take the work anyway because you would like to make the profit?
For many business owners, yes, of course, and any potential problems will be dealt with at a later time. For smaller and more select businesses, no. That is because turning away a client that is not ideal will save them the potential headaches this client could cause and working for anyone you are not comfortable with can and will make your job harder. The ideal client, even with less to offer; will most likely be consistent in their business with you, provide an enjoyable transaction and may surprise you with how much business they can stimulate for you.
For most new businesses starting out, this approach can take away many opportunities but the few they receive will be solid. If you run a “smaller select business” you will most definitely want to have other income until you grow your business larger with time. I use this same thought process with SA. It’s not for everyone, but it is for me.
Again, this post is NOT for the general audience of SB’s. I started the post after reading multiple SB postings asking why they weren’t obtaining their ideal SR after having pay for play meetings. Just as you said, real SD’s aren’t looking for an escort. Agreeing to pay for play puts you into escort grouping. This post IS however, directed at like minded SB’s like me who seek a long term arrangement, wish to enjoy consensual sex when both parties are ready and are not just looking for financial gain. Perhaps I am alone in that mindset.
I may have only “been in the game” for a week but I knew exactly what I wanted before beginning and starting my profile and what I want and expect to deliver is stated in black & white on my profile.
What I want will not change and I am not short on options of POT’s by being honest and forthcoming with what I want.
Sex was focused on this post because too many SB’s are unknowingly behaving as escorts and wondering why they are being treated as escorts. You are right in your response that sex for the vast majority of SR is expected, but I stand firm in my advice to other SB’s that if you can’t commit to sex immediately that’s ok, you’re just targeting a different SD and either should: 1. Hold out for your ideal SR or 2. Get out of the game. No one should bend their values uncomfortably for any relationship. I certainly don’t expect an POT SD’s to mold himself to fit my company.
“directed at like minded SB’s like me who seek a long term arrangement”
Or as you stated in your other post here “want things to last, you save the goods for the right time”. Not having sex early does not lead to an increased chance at a long term SR. That is a fallacy. This is in no way a factual statement. Being on two dates is an extremely small sample size. Not even counting the fact that you don’t know if your POT SD and you will be together in two weeks. This is a dangerously ignorant statement. You can not possibly know your advice to be true without seeing the results.
Look at it from a logical/science experiment kind of way. You just started a culture test that takes 3 months to finish. You have two attempts at it (your two M&Gs). One didn’t work, and one looks promising after only 1 day. No scientist, worth their salt, would start writing their paper on this topic before the test is finished. And the good ones would use many experiences (in this case multiple tests) to prove their point.
Your “point of this post” does not equate to your post. That part is mostly accurate. But that is not what your post stated. You made a few very poor claims at best. And some really terrible ones. There is a reason I copy/pasted lines from your own post. There were all examples of you not fully understanding what the Bowl is, nor how it works. (They are not the only ones, just some of the most obvious ones)
Take the fact you have 100 messages in the first week. If you were to take some time before posting this, you will see that number drops off. As the PUA (pick up artists), pump and dump crowd, ect move on. There is a reason a good number of SDs wait for a profile to have been on SA close to two weeks before contacting them. Because those first two weeks or more are mostly fakes/flakes/PUA/P&D/ect.
Your post isn’t being read wrong. It’s misleading your true point. Sex isn’t a “perk” in a SR, as you stated. It is half of the pillars of the Bowl. Without that, there is no allowance and the whole thing falls apart.
Again, no woman (or man) should do something they are not comfortable with. And again, it’s okay to bow out of the Bowl if it is not something a woman (or man) is happy with. But the idea of withholding sex equates to a long term happy SR is not true. And that idea should not be given voice. Much like the platonic idea being “common”. All this does is set up potential (and new) SBs with a false view on what being in a SR requires. It is NOT easy. It is NOT simple. At best your post covers up the truth. At worst it is a lie. (Regardless if you know it to be a lie or not)
The premise of your post (not your “point of post”) is faulty.
The reason so many SBs are taken advantage of has less to do with not withholding sex. It has to do with them not researching the Bowl. Getting bad advice that makes it seem like chocolate and puppy dogs.
Too many, vastly too many, jump into the Bowl with only tag lines as their guides. So they don’t see what is coming and how to avoid the terrible ones. Your post exacerbates that.
Are you to tell me that SR are so far from actual dating relationships that my take on things could never apply realistically? How?
Besides the money on the table, “dating” an SD can be like dating any other man:
Dinner, conversation, an exchange of real feelings, romance (romance doesn’t always equate to sex).
I think your tone, though appreciated that it is direct, is simply rude and close minded. I may not have been in the bowl before but I have dated men of substantial status the majority of my dating life. Any girl who is in my industry will tell you that many relationships started with high status men dating women in porn will initially feel as if it is a SR. My “regular” dating experience is nothing regular for a standard 24 year old woman. So yes, I believe I have enough experience to write in about it. Men in “the real world” assume sex is a realistic expectation of me fairly quickly, just as many SD’s expect of a SB. They are also turned down in their advances if that is the only driving thought behind their desire to court me.
There is no shame in only seeking SD’s who appreciate a SB’s mind before their body. This isn’t a prostitution site and I invite you to read on the history of this site’s original intended purpose:
A DATING site for established men who seek a relationship (whether NSA or LT) with all motives for both parties cleanly laid out on the table (without games as you have said) and a place for women to find a beneficial relationship with a financially successful man.
Placing sex on the shelf as a deserved reward is not playing a game. That’s just plain callous of you to say. Having sex to simply have sex because you want it even just minutes after meeting someone in person is isn’t shameful or wrong at all in any way, shape or form either if both parties are consenting. However, using your vagina as an ATM or magical Prada bag producer isn’t the original point of this site and is considered illegal escorting.
We shall agree to disagree.
One last reply to part of your response:
“Sex isn’t a “perk” in a SR, as you stated. It is half of the pillars of the Bowl. Without that, there is no allowance and the whole thing falls apart.”
– complete load of shit. There are plenty of SD’s looking for something other than sex and are happily willing to make financial arrangements with the right girl without it being a promised piece from the get go.
I am not hurting any girl by advising them that not having sex isn’t unrealistic in certain SR’s. YOU however just clearly stated that without sex there is no allowance, defining a woman’s worth as purely sexual in your eyes. Have you never gifted a woman for anything other than sex? If you haven’t, you’re doing it wrong.
Confident in my initial advice now that I’ve really absorbed your words. Ladies: YOUR BODY DOESNT HAVE A PRICE TAG <3
Just your TIME, affection and whatever skill your SD values outside of sex (event planning, woman’s aesthetic touch, companionship) so charge accordingly.
There’s an issue here with definitions. What does “plenty of SDs” mean? Ambrose and I are giving advice for the “average” SD on the site. So let’s clear up some stuff.
“There are plenty of SD’s looking for something other than sex and are happily willing to make financial arrangements with the right girl without it being a promised piece from the get go.”
Depends on what you mean by plenty. Are there hundreds of SDs who will do this? Absolutely. Do they make up any more than 5% of people on SA? Probably not. The problem with saying this is that every SB now will think that they can get an arrangement without promising sex. And most of them will fail. Some will succeed. Perhaps you believe that this is really the only true way to have an SR (not promising sex at the beginning of the arrangement). You are entitled to believe that. Others are entitled to believe differently.
“Have you never gifted a woman for anything other than sex? If you haven’t, you’re doing it wrong.”
Maybe I’m doing it wrong. But the issue is that a sugar relationship should provide both parties with something that they wouldn’t otherwise be able to get outside of sugar relationships. For me, I can get time, affection, and other stuff outside a sugar relationship easily. What is harder is being able to be intimate with a younger woman on an accelerated pace without strings attached. This is why I’m in the sugar bowl. Perhaps you think I’m not a real sugar daddy. That’s fine. We all have our opinions. Also, the issue here is that you don’t necessarily have to settle for pay for play in that the SD doesn’t have to pay every time and the SB doesn’t have to have sex every time (just like in a dating relationship). But the issue here is that you seem to imply that an SB can start to get an allowance before promising to start intimacy. Again, this is true sometimes, but the majority of sugar relationships don’t work this way (at least not anymore).
“Just your TIME, affection and whatever skill your SD values outside of sex (event planning, woman’s aesthetic touch, companionship) so charge accordingly.”
Again, some SDs value your time and affection and your skills without sex. But not most. And to be honest, most SBs are not that great at providing these things. You may be amazing as a person, but most SBs are still young and inexperienced in life and their ability to offer an older man something outside of intimacy is limited. Again this is not always true, but we are speaking to the average.
Just think about it this way. Both the SB and SD are bringing time, affection, and whatever skill they have to the relationship. That is how a normal relationship works. And SRs can have a normal relationship aspect. But in a sense, what is the SD going to “pay” for that is in addition to what they can get outside of the sugar bowl? For some SDs, discreet companionship and arm candy are enough. But for most these days, they are not going to “pay” for just that.
In a sense, you’re advocating for what a sugar relationship maybe was in the past. But think about it this way. The number of relatively wealthy men who are willing to dole out sugar just because or for companionship that does not involve sex is very limited in the world. In the past, this may have worked. But with the advent of SA and the “democratization” of sugar dating, there are now many many more potential SBs. The number of potential SDs has also grown, but likely not nearly as quickly because well money is limited in this world. So you’ve now got “middle class SDs and SBs”, to put it bluntly. These are the ones for whom sugar dating might seem a bit more transactional. But that’s bound to happen as people who would not have been in sugar relationships in the past now are dipping into the pool. The sugar bowl has to accommodate these people. Which means that nowadays sex and money go hand in hand a little bit more than perhaps in the past. This is just a fact now. You can implore all you want for SBs to not succumb to this. But what you’ll end up doing is having all SBs chase those 5% SDs and most of them will fail.
So I’ve been a SB for 9 months now. The first 4 or 5 I believed what VendiCarson said. I bought it. But it’s just not true. I got taken advantage of a few times because I believed sex was a perk and not what men wanted to in a sugar relationship.
So any new SBs or someone looking to be a SB, please avoid her advice! It is really bad.
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